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LIVE FROM MARYLAND PUBLIC TELEVISION, THIS IS "DIRECT CONNECTION" WITH JEFF SALKIN.

*] >> Jeff: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO YOUR "DIRECT CONNECTION" COMING UP TONIGHT A NEW BOOK TACKLES THE DIFFICULT HISTORY OF THE NFL'S PIONEERING BLACK QUARTERBACKS.

THAT INTERVIEW IS JUST AHEAD.

FIRST TONIGHT A NEW STUDY HAS SCARY NEWS ABOUT YOUNG ATHLETES AND BRAIN TRAUMA.

JOINING US TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS TONIGHT Dr. GARY SCHWARTZBAUER DIRECTOR OF NEUROTRAUMA AT THE SHOCK TRAUMA CENTER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND MEDICAL CENTER.

DOCTOR THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

TELL US ABOUT THIS NEW STUDY OF ATHLETES BRAINS, PARTICULARLY YOUNG ATHLETES.

>> SURE.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

SO THIS STUDY AND THE SIGNIFICANCE WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT A LARGE NUMBER OF YOUNGER MOSTLY ATHLETES WERE FOUND TO HAVE EVIDENCE OF SOMETHING CALLED CHRONIC TRAUMA ENCEPHALOPATHY.

IT IS A MOUTHFUL AND WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT IS.

CHRONIC.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS USUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH SOMETHING HAPPENING OVER TIME.

TRAUMATIC.

REPETITIVE HEAD INJURIES AT OCCUR OVER TIME AND ENCEPHALOPATHY WITH THE BRAIN FUNCTION IS NOT QUITE RIGHT.

WE HAVE KNOWN FOR SOMETIME SINCE 1928, SOMETHING CALLED DEMENTIA, PUNCH STRUCK THAT BOXERS WHEN THEY GET OLDER WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO PROCESS THINKING.

WOULD BE AGGRESSIVE.

HAVE OUTBURSTS OF EMOTION.

EPISODES OF DEPRESSION.

SUICIDE.

AND THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP MORE RECENTLY AND PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES.

AND IN PARTICULAR FOOTBALL, MALE AND FEMALE SOCCER PLAYERS, HOCKEY, YOU NAME IT THE SPORT THERE'S PROBABLY EVIDENCE OF THIS HAPPENING.

AND SO THERE'S TWO COMPONENTS TO IT.

THE SO-CALLED CTE.

ONE IS SOMETHING YOU CAN SEE FROM THE OUTSIDE.

THE WAY THE PERSON THINKS, THEY THEMSELVES MIGHT NOT BE PROCESSING THINGS REMEMBERING THINGS THAT THEY USED TO.

THEY MIGHT BE AGGRESSIVE.

THEY MIGHT BE IMPULSIVE, EXPLOSIVE PERSONALITY FOR EXAMPLE.

THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO SLEEP WELL.

THESE KINDS OF THINGS ARE EVIDENT TO OTHERS IN THEIR LIFE AND MAYBE TO THE PERSON THEMSELVES.

BUT THE KEY PART OF THE DIAGNOSIS UNFORTUNATELY CAN'T BE DONE UNTIL AFTER THEY DIE.

AND AN AUTOPSY THEY FIND THEIR BRAINS HAVE A PARTICULAR KIND OF STAINING FOR A TOWEL PROTEIN, THE SAME PROTEIN ASSOCIATED WITH ALZHEIMER'S DEMEN IS THAT IT'S NOT THE SAME PATTERN BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.

NOT UNTIL THE AUTOPSY IS DONE THAT A TRUE DIAGNOSIS OF CTE IS DONE.

>> Jeff: GIVEN THAT HOW IS THE STUDY PERFORMED AND WHAT AGES WERE LOOKED AT?

>> THAT IS RIGHT.

SO THE KEY PART OF THIS DONE BY ANNE McKEY UP IN BOSTON AT THE BOSTON V.A.

AND BOSTON UNIVERSITY IT WAS THE LARGEST STUDY 152 PATIENTS AND BRAINS THEY LOOKED AT.

OF FOLKS LESS THAN 30 YEARS OLD.

THE AVERAGE AGE THAT THEY FOUND WAS ABOUT 22, 23.

AND ABOUT 40% OF THEM EVEN AT THIS YOUNG AGE HAD EVIDENCE ON THIS BRAIN TISSUE STEAMING THAT NAILED DOWN THE DIAGNOSIS OF CTE IN THESE YOUNG PATIENTS.

IT'S STRIKING.

IT CAN BEGIN EARLY AND THEY ARE AS YOUNG AS 14 YEARS OLD AND OLDER WITHIN THIS GROUP.

THEY FOUND AN ASSOCIATION WITH FOLKS WHO HAD THIS EVIDENCE OF CTE, PLAYED SPORTS LONGER, ROUGHLY THREE TO FOUR YEARS-LONGER THAN THE OTHER FOLKS BRAINS IN THE STUDY.

AND THEY ALL HAD EVIDENCE OF SOME BEHAVIORAL ISSUE.

WHETHER IT WAS THE WAY THAT THE BRAINS WORKED, AGGRESSION, AND IN FACT, TO GET INTO THIS STUDY AND THIS IS A KEY PART OF THIS, DOES IT MEAN THAT ALL YOUNG ATHLETE ALSO HAVE EVIDENCE OF THIS.

SOMETHING WAS VERY SPECIAL ABOUT THIS STUDY YOU CAN IMAGINE IT'S UNUSUAL TO HAVE A YOUNG PERSON WHO HAS DIED FOR WHATEVER REASON.

BUT IF THEY'VE DIED UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THE FAMILY'S CONCERNED THAT SCIENCE MIGHT WANT TO STUDY THEIR BRAINS, THIS STUDY CAME FROM SUCH A BANK OF BRAINS.

FOR EXAMPLE, FOLKS WHO HAD CHRONIC REPETITIVE INJURY WHETHER IT WAS DUE TO SPORTS MOST WERE FOOTBALL PLAYERS AND MOST MALE BUT IT COULD BE A MILITARY FOLKS FROM BLAST INJURY ET CETERA.

THE FAMILY AND LOVED ONES WHO CONCERNED ENOUGH I THINK YOU NEED TO STUDY THEIR BRAINS FURTHER.

>> Jeff: IT DOES SEEM LIKE THINGS ARE CHANGING IN SPORTS.

YOU THINK BACK TO THE OLD DAYS OF THE NFL AND SADLY SOMEBODY WOULD GET KNOCKED OUT.

THEY BRING THEM BACK WITH SMELLING SALTS AND SENTENCED THEM BACK IN FAST FORWARD THIS YEAR, IN TRAINING CAMP WITH THE PRO LEVEL YOU SAW PEOPLE A LOT OF LINEMEN WITH HELMETS ON ON TOP OF THE HELMETS THEY HAD PADDING AND YOU IMAGINE AT ALL LEVELS OF FOOTBALL THERE'S GROWING CONCERNS.

GIVEN WHAT HAS BEEN LEARNED IN THE STUDY, WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN NEXT?

>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

AND THAT'S WHAT THE BIGGEST THING THE STUDY RAISES.

AT WHAT POINT SHOULD WE BE CONCERNED THAT OUR YOUNG FOLKS ARE INVOLVED IN THE SPORTS MOSTLY CONTACT BUT KEEP IN MIND SOME OF THE SPORTS LIKE BASKETBALL, AND SOFTBALL, THAT'S BEEN FOUND TO HAVE EVIDENCE OF THIS KIND OF INJURY IN YOUNGER FOLKS WE NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT THIS EARLY ON.

AND HOW CAN WE PREVENT THIS PERHAPS AND BE SAFER ABOUT IT.

WELL, ONE THING IS EDUCATION.

THE COACHING STAFF THE MEDICAL STAFF HAS TO BE AWARE OF WHAT IS A CONCUSSION.

AND THE BIGGEST RISK IS REPETITIVE CONCUSSIONS.

CONCUSSIONS DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU'RE KNOCKED OUT.

IT HAS A SIMPLE DEFINITION.

IT'S ALTERATION OF BRAIN FUNCTION BY A MECHANICAL PROCESS.

WHETHER IT'S A BLAST, A HIT, A FALL.

AND SO COULD BE HEADACHE, COULD BE DISNEYNESS, COULD BE VISION CHANGES, DOUBLE VISION, BRAIN FOG IS THE BIGGEST SYMPTOMS FOLKS DESCRIBE THEY CAN'T THINK AS FAST AS THEY COULD.

IF YOU LOSE CONSCIOUSNESS AND IF YOU HAVE INSOMNIA UP AND DOWN EPISODIC EMOTIONS.

THESE ARE EVIDENCE OF CONCUSSION EVEN IF SOMEONE HAS NOT LOST CONSCIOUSNESS.

IN SOCCER PLAYERS THEY HIT THEIR HEAD ALL THE TIME BUT THEY RARELY LOSE CONSCIOUSNESS BUT THEY CAN HAVE A CONCUSSION.

>> Jeff: I WANT TO REMIND OUR VIEWERS IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT BRAIN INJURIES AND CONCUSSIONS IN SPORTS GIVE US A CALL OR SEND AN E-MAIL.

AND CONCUSSIONS AND THE INJURIES IN THIS STUDY THAT COULD LEAD TO CTE ARE THEY THE SAME THING LIKE IS IT AN INJURY NOT AS SEVERE AS A CONCUSSION, A BUNCH OF THEM EQUAL AN CONCUSSION HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> GREAT QUESTION.

SO THEY ARE BUILDING BLOCKS TO THE DISEASE CALLED CHRONIC TRAUM McEN EXCEPT LOP THINK.

ONE CONCUSSION DOES NOT MAKE CTE.

IT'S REPETITIVE CONCUSSIONS AND ESPECIALLY IF A CONCUSSION HAPPENS WITHIN USUALLY A COUPLE WEEKS TO A MONTH OF A PRIMARY CONCUSSION.

THE FIRST CONCUSSION.

AND YOUR BRAIN IS MUCH MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO WORSE INJURY IN LONGER OUTCOME IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER CONCUSSION WHEN YOU ARE STILL RECOVERING FROM THE FIRST.

SO THE KEY IS EDUCATION TO THE COACHING STAFF, TO THE FAMILIES THE PLAYERS.

TO REMOVE THAT PLAYER FROM THE FIELD IF THEY HAVE A CONCUSSION.

USUALLY IT'S 24/48 HOURS IF THEY ARE STARTING TO FEEL BETTER CAN HAVE A GRADUATED RETURN TO PLAY AND THERE ARE GUIDELINES FOR THIS.

THAT IS ONE THING WE WERE TALKING OFF CAMERA ABOUT THE FACT UP TO 40% OF YOUNG ATHLETES DON'T REPORT A CONCUSSION TO THE COACH, TO THE TEAM, EVEN TO THEIR FAMILIES.

AND SO WE HAVE TO BE VERY VIGILANT OF SYMPTOMS FROM THIS.

OTHER THINGS...

BETTER EQUIPMENT.

FOR EXAMPLE HELMETS.

IT GETS CONFUSING BECAUSE HELMETS HAVE DIFFERENT KINDS OF GRADING.

SOMETHING CALLED SNELL OR NOCSAE ARE IF THE HELMET IS GOING TO BREAK OR LEAD TO A SKULL FRACTURE.

THERE'S ANOTHER CALLED VIRGINIA TECH THAT PREVENTS CONCUSSIONS WITH A STAR RATING SYSTEM THAT IS THE MOST POPULAR.

LOOK FOR SOME OF THESE AND ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IS THE SAFEST EQUIPMENT AND THERE'S ONGOING RESEARCH ABOUT THESE FROM SEVERAL ANGLES.

>> Jeff: LET'S GRAB A PHONE CALL FROM BALTIMORE COUNTY.

THIS IS RICK.

THANK YOU FOR THE CALL GO AHEAD.

>> THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING.

MY QUESTION IS ABOUT PEOPLE DIED NOW THROUGH PROTOCOL WHICH WOULD BE THIS THAT THE BRAIN ACOUSTIC MONITOR BE ENABLE TO SURVEY THE BLOOD PROFUSION IN THE BRAIN FOLLOWING TRAUMATIC INJURY.

>> Jeff: RICK THANK YOU THAT WAS OVER MY HEAD.

>> IT WAS ALMOST OVER MINE.

THANK YOU, AGAIN THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION BECAUSE WE'RE STUCK WITH CTE BEING SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS BASICALLY THE DIAGNOSIS IS AFTER THEY DIE THAT IS TOO LATE.

WE WANT TO CATCH IT AS IT'S HAPPENING OR BEFORE IT HAPPENS.

SO MRI, STUDIES SUCH AS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ACOUSTIC MONITORING, MARKERS MEANING SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE CEREBRAL SPINAL FLUID THAT FLOATS AROUND THE BRAIN OR IN THE BLOOD FOLKS ARE RESEARCHING THAT BUT NOTHING AS OF YET.

>> Jeff: CULTURAL ISSUE IN SPORTS.

IF YOU ARE AN ATHLETE YOU WANT TO PLAY.

YOU SAID 40% GO UNDETECTED UNDIAGNOSED MAYBE SOMEBODY THINKS THEY HAVE SYMPTOMS YOU HAVE BEEN THE GUY THE INDEPENDENT NEUROLOGIST ON THE SIDELINE OF AN NFL FOOTBALL GAME AND THE POINT OF THAT IS TO TRY TO SPOT THINGS THAT THE COACHING STAFF OR THE PLAYER LET'S BE GENEROUS AND SAY THEY ARE PREOCCUPIED AND NOT ABLE TO SPOT.

>> YES.

AND THAT'S THE REASON THERE'S THREE OF US THERE THAT ARE AT NFL GAMES FOR EXAMPLE, IN ADDITION TO THE COACHING STAFF EVERYONE IN THE STADIUM AND WATCHING LIVE ON TV AND A LOT OF CASES.

LOOKING FOR SIGNS AND SYMPTOMS.

AGAIN, SOME CAN BE SUBTLE.

THE WAY SOMEONE IS WALKING.

REMEMBER THEY ARE PREMIER ATHLETES.

SOMETIMES THEY CANNOT QUITE FAKE IT AND GET THROUGH SOMETHING AND AS I SAY, SHAKE IT OFF.

THAT'S NOT RIGHT.

IF SOMEONE IS OBSERVED TO BE INJURED AND THEY NEED TO BE TAKEN OUT OF THE GAME AND EVALUATED AND POSITIVE FOREVER FOREVER -- FOR A CONCUSSION BACK TO THE PROTOCOL.

THE GOAL IS TO HAVE THIS WORKING AT THE JUNIOR LEVELS FOR THE YOUNGER ATHLETES AS WELL.

ESPECIALLY BASED ON THE LATEST STUDY.

>> Jeff: LET'S GRAB ANOTHER CALL THIS IS JENNY IN BALTIMORE COUNTY.

THANK YOU FOR CALLING GO AHEAD.

>> JENNY ARE YOU THERE?

>> CAN YOU HEAR ME?

>> WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION.

>> MY QUESTION IS KNOWING WHAT THE DOCTOR KNOWS ABOUT THE STUDIES AND EVERYTHING THAT HE HAS SEEN AND HEARD IF HE HIMSELF HAD A SON OR A GRANDSON WOULD HE LET HIM PLAY FOOTBALL?

>> Jeff: THANKS FOR THE CALL.

>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

MY WIFE'S NOT HERE WE HAVE PERHAPS DIFFERENT ANSWERS TO THIS.

YOU KNOW, JEFF AND I WERE TALKING MY DAD WAS A FOOTBALL PLAYER I PLAYED CONTACT SPORTS UP THROUGH AND IN HIGH SCHOOL ALL THE WAY THROUGH IT.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY BENEFITS TO TEAM SPORTS INCLUDING CONTACT SPORTS.

TO TEACH NOT ONLY TEAMWORK WORKING WITH OTHERS, GOAL-DIRECTED OBJECTIVE.

THERE ARE MANY GOOD POSITIVE THINGS.

AND KEEP IN MIND, EVEN WITHIN THIS SUPER SELECTIVE STUDY WHERE THEY TOOK BRAINS THEY KNEW PERHAPS THERE WAS SOMETHING GOING ON ALREADY ONLY 41% HAD EVIDENCE OF THIS.

60% DID NOT.

SO CLEARLY JUST THE REPETITIVE INJURY IS NOT THE WHOLE STORY.

THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE WHETHER IT'S GENETIC OR OTHER THERE IS SOMETHING WE HAVE NOT FOUND YET.

>> Jeff: WHY IS IT THAT LINEMEN IN FOOTBALL HAVE A HIGH LEVEL OF CONCERN.

THE HIGHLIGHT THAT MAKES SPORTS CENTER IS TWO PEOPLE RUNNING AT FULL SPEED SMASHING INTO EACH OTHER.

THE LINEMEN ARE NOT AT FULL SPEED.

>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION AND THEY'VE LOOKED AT THAT IT'S THE HEAD SLAPPING THAT GOES ON BETWEEN THE LINEMEN FOR A LOT OF IT.

THESE ARE 300 POUND FOLKS VERY STRONG INDIVIDUALS AND THERE IS A LOT OF HAND WORK AND ARM WORK WHERE THEIR HEADS ARE GETTING BATTERED AROUND ON ALMOST EVERY PLAY.

A RUNNING BACK ALSO A GREAT RISK ONLY HAS SELECT PLAYS THEY ARE RUNNING AND DOING.

BUT THE LINEMEN ARE PLAY IN AND PLAY OUT.

>> Jeff: THIS IS CUMULATIVE.

>> VERY MUCH.

>> Jeff: IS THERE A SPORT THAT PEOPLE WOULDN'T THINK IT IS A CONCERN BUT YOU KNOW BASED ON WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT PARENTS, COACHES, SCHOOL AUTHORITIES OUGHT TO GIVE IT MORE THOUGHT?

>> YES.

WE MENTIONED BIG ONES, FOOTBALL, HOCKEY, SOCCER.

BUT SOFTBALL IS A BIG ONE AND BEING HIT BY THE BALL COUNTS FOR 25% OF THE BRAIN INJURIES THAT HAPPEN CONCUSSIONS.

>> Jeff: WEARING A HELMET?

>> THEY ARE HIT BY A BALL THAT'S BEING HIT INTO THE FIELD OF PLAY.

NOW IN BASEBALL DIFFERENT STORY.

TURN THAT AROUND IT'S HIT BY A PITCH THAT DOES THAT.

AND BASKETBALL SPORT THAT I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY THINK ALSO HAS A FAIR PERCENTAGE OF CTE IN CONCUSSIONS.

WHICH YOU WOULDN'T THINK OF A CONTACT SPORT BUT WE WOULD HAVE TO TALK TO SOME OF OUR NBA FRIENDS AND THEY WOULD DISAGREE ABOUT THAT.

>> Jeff: IF THERE IS AN ATHLETE WATCHING WHO MAY HAVE A CONCUSSION WHY IS IT IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO REPORT IT?

>> FOR YOUR OWN HEALTH AND SAFETY.

IT'S ONE THING TO SUCK IT UP FOR A SINGLE GAME OR ANOTHER GAME FOLKS HAVE SHOWN THAT FOR A CHAMPIONSHIPS IT'S LESS REPORTED BUT PLEASE TELL SOMEONE TELL YOUR COACH TELL YOUR FAMILY.

>> Jeff: SDR GARY SCHWARTZBAUER OF SHOCKS TRAUMA WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> THANKS, JEFF, I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Jeff: ON THE BOOK BEAT WE'RE JOINED BY LONG TIME BALTIMORE SPORTS WRITER JOHN EISENBERG WHO HAS A BOOK CALLED ROCKET MEN, THE BLACK QUARTERBACKS WHO REVOLUTIONIZED PRO FOOTBALL.

JOHN IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

TELL ME ABOUT THE TITLE FIRST.

WHY ROCKET MEN?

>> THE TITLE I INTEND AS A COMPLIMENT.

NOT JUST TO THE CURRENT GENERATION OF BLACK QUARTERBACKS, THE LAMAR JACKSON'S OF THE WORLD WHO ARE PLAYING, PLAYING SO WELL AND CLEARLY IF YOU'VE SEEN THEM ARE ROCKET MEN BUT THEY STAND ON THE SHOULDERS OF MANY GENERATIONS OF GUYS WHO DID NOT GET ON TO THE FIELD.

COLLEGE STARS FROM THE 60s AND 70s AND 80s THIS IS WHAT I DETAIL IN MY BOOK AND A LOT OF THEM WERE UNABLE TO PLAY.

PRO FOOTBALL DIDN'T LIKE BLACK QUARTERBACKS DIDN'T WANT BLACK QUARTERBACKS AND THERE WAS DENIAL BY STEREOTYPE.

BUT YET IT WAS JUST THE STORY OF OPPORTUNITY NOT TALENT.

THERE'S NOT MUCH DOUBT THEY COULD HAVE PLAYED.

THEY WERE LOCKET MEN, TOO.

>> Jeff: I HEARD THE NAME FRITZ POLLARD BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THE HISTORY.

TELL US THE HISTORY AND HIS STORY.

>> FRITZ POLLARD WAS THE FIRST BLACK QUARTERBACK IN THE NFL.

HE WAS ALSO THE FIRST BLACK HEAD COACH IN THE NFL.

HE WAS A TRUE PIONEER IN THE FIRST YEARS OF THE LEAGUE.

1920, THE FIRST YEAR OF THE NFL HE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN THE MOST VALUABLE PLAYER IF THEY HAD ONE.

AND HE WAS A SCAT BACK FROM CHICAGO.

HE HAD GONE TO BROWN.

AND HE WAS A BARRIER BUSTER IF EVER THERE WAS ONE.

AND IN 1923 HE WAS PLAYING FOR THE IMMORTAL HAMMOND PROS OF HAMMOND, INDIANA.

AND SOON RELEGATED TO THE DUST BIN BUT THERE WAS A DAY IN OCTOBER WHERE HE LINED UP IN QUARTERBACK AND PLAYED IT WAS IN A BOX SCORE AND I FOUND IT AND THAT IS THE FIRST BLACK PERSON WHO STARTED A GAME IN THE NFL.

>> Jeff: YOU WRITE ABOUT OTHER ATHLETES WHO BUT FOR THEIR RACE WOULD HAVE EXCELLED AT THE POSITION WHO COMES TO MIND?

>> WELL, THERE ARE MANY.

SANDY STEVENS IS THE NAME AND I CONSIDER MYSELF A SPORTS EXPERT.

I LEARNED A LOT ABOUT SOME OF THIS.

SANDY STEVENS IS WITH THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA IN 1960.

THE FIRST BLACK QUARTERBACK TO BE FIRST TEAM ALL AMERICAN.

AND JUST A GREAT COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYER.

WON THE ROSE BOWL.

PLAYED IN THE ROSE BOWL TWICE.

GOT DRAFTED BY THE CLEVELAND BROWNS.

BUT NEVER PLAYED A DOWN IN THE NFL.

WENT TO CANADA BECAUSE HE WASN'T GOING TO PLAY QUARTERBACK IN THE NFL.

AND IT JUST DIDN'T WORKOUT.

AND HE REALLY STANDS EMBLEMMATIC OF WHAT HAPPENED.

A PLAYER OF THAT ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT WAS NOT EVEN ON THE FIELD IN THE NFL.

>> Jeff: HAVE WE MAYBE REACHED A POINT WHERE THE RACE OF THE QUARTERBACK IS AN ISSUE OF THE PAST?

WE HAD THE FIRST SUPER BOWL WITH TWO BLACK QUARTERBACKS.

>> YES.

WE ARE AT THAT INFLECTION POINT IN THE STORY I DO BELIEVE THAT.

THE SUPER BOWL WAS A BIG ONE AND SEVERAL MONTHS LATER THREE OF THE FIRST FOUR PICKS IN THE NFL DRAFT WERE BLACK QUARTERBACKS.

AND SO THAT'S A REAL MOMENT.

I THINK WE ARE SEEING A MOMENT IN TIME WHERE FINALLY THESE TEAMS ARE NOT SEEING COLOR AT THE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION IN THE GAME.

IT WAS A LONGTIME COMING.

AND THERE ARE STILL VESTIGES OF IT IF YOU LOOK AT THE BACKUP QUARTERBACK POPULATION AND THE JOURNEY MEN POPULATION IT'S MORE WHITE THAN BLACK.

THAT HAS TO EVOLVE OVER TIME THAT IS PROBABLY THE NEXT BATTLEGROUND IN THIS DOUG WILLIAMS WHO WON THE SUPER BOWL YEARS AGO TOLD ME THAT IN AN INTERVIEW.

THERE'S THINGS TO GO.

BUT IT'S CHANGING DRAMATICALLY AND I THINK IT WILL CONTINUE TO.

>> Jeff: HASN'T BEEN THAT LONG, THOUGH, SINCE LAMAR JACKSON WAS BEING TOLD THAT HE OUGHT TO CHANGE POSITIONS.

WHICH YOU KNOW, I MEAN YOU KNOW HIM CERTAINLY AS WELL AS ANYBODY IN THE MEDIA HAVING COVERED THE RAVENS, I FORGET WHAT THE PLAY WAS MAYBE IT WAS MULTIPLE PLAYS WHERE HE SAID NOT BAD FOR A RUNNING BACK.

>> NOT BAD FOR A RUNNING BACK.

IT WAS THE THEN SAN DIEGO CHARGERS A SCOUT TOLD HIM AT THE COMBINE WHY DON'T YOU RUN THE 40, WE WANT TO SEE YOU BE A GOOD WIDE RECEIVER AND OTHER ANALYSTS SAID THAT.

AND HE WAS JUST HORRIFIED.

AND YOU KNOW, HE SO, YES, HE -- SO HE GETS A JOB.

AND THE RAVENS GIVE HIM THE KEYS TO THE OFFENSE IN HIS SECOND SEASON IN THE NFL AND GOES ON TO BE MVP IN THE LEAGUE.

THE FIRST GAME THAT SEASON HE THREW FIVE TOUCHDOWN PASSES AND THAT WAS HIS COMMENT AND IT WAS JUST A GREAT RESPONSE ALL THE STATISTICS.

NOT BAD FOR A RUNNING BACK.

THAT IS HOW HE SAW IT.

SOMEBODY THAT OTHER PEOPLE HAD TOLD TO CHANGE POSITIONS.

>> Jeff: I HEARD YOU SAY THAT THE SLOWNESS OF THIS EVOLUTION WAS A CASE OF THE WHITE POWER STRUCTURE NOT WANTING TO PUT A BLACK PERSON IN A POSITION A DECISION MAKING POSITION, POSITION OF AUTHORITY.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE FOR THAT?

>> WELL, THE EVIDENCE IS IN THE NUMBERS.

WITHOUT DOUBT.

AND IT WAS LEE STEINBERG THE AGENT FOR PATRICK MAHOMES AND ALSO THE AGENT GOING BACK 40 YEARS FOR WARREN MOON THE FIRST GREAT BLACK QUARTERBACK PLAYED FOR THE HOUSTON OILERS SAID THE OWNERSHIP ALMOST ALL WHITE OWNERSHIP IN THE NFL THEY WANT THE QUARTERBACK IS THE FACE OF THE FRANCHISE IT IS A GLAMOUR POSITION THEY WANT THAT PERSON GOING BACK IN TIME TO BE SOMEONE THEY CAN TAKE TO THE COUNTRY CLUB OR BOAT.

THESE ARE WEALTHY MEN AND PAL AROUND AND ALL THAT.

IF YOU GO BACK COMING OUT OF THE 80s THE 90s, LEE'S INFERENCE THEY DIDN'T WANT IT TO BE A BLACK PERSON WANTED IT TO BE SOMEONE THEY WERE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH.

THE GLAMOUR OF THE QUARTERBACK POSITION WORKED AGAINST THE BLACK QUARTERBACK BECAUSE THE POWER STRUCTURE IN THE LEAGUE WAS WHITE.

AND CERTAINLY IT'S ALSO TRUE AMONG THE PEOPLE THAT SHAPE THE ROSTERS GOING BACK TO THE 80s AND THE 90s.

THE GENERAL MANAGER THE FOOTBALL PEOPLE THERE WAS A LOT OF SKEPTICISM AND IT DIED VERY, VERY SLOWLY.

>> Jeff: YOU MENTIONED FRITZ POLLARD WAS THE FIRST BLACK HEAD COACH AS WELL.

I MEAN THAT'S AN AREA THAT CERTAINLY YOU KNOW, YOU FLIP IT AROUND THE CHANNELS ON A SUNDAY AFTERNOON AND THERE'S ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT THERE.

>> THERE'S TREMENDOUS ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT.

THAT IS REALLY WHERE THE NFL IS FACING HAS A REAL PROBLEM RACIAL PROBLEM RIGHT NOW.

AND THAT IS IN THE HEAD COACHING POPULATION.

IT'S LOW, I THINK THREE AND IT IS NOT NEARLY ENOUGH IN A LEAGUE THAT IS 60% BLACK AND 70% PEOPLE OF COLOR.

THE PLAYING POPULATION.

SO IT'S A TREMENDOUS PROBLEM AND HONESTLY I'M NOT SURE THE NFL KNOWS WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT.

THEY HAVE A RULE IN PLACE THE ROONEY RULE THAT FORCES TEAMS TO INTERVIEW MINORITY CANDIDATES IT HASN'T REALLY WORKED.

>> Jeff: YOU'VE SEEN BASICALLY SHAM INTERVIEWS, RIGHT?

>> IT'S SHAM INTERVIEWS.

IT IS.

I DON'T KNOW, IT'S REALLY TOUGH TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN.

I THINK IT'S TIED SOMEWHAT TO WHAT I MENTIONED THE BACKUP QUARTERBACK POPULATION A LOT OF THE COACHES ESPECIALLY THE OFFENSIVE COACHES THEY COME THROUGH THE QUARTERBACK RANKS AND THERE'S NO BETTER WAY TO LEARN PRO FOOTBALL THAN TO CARRY A CLIPBOARD FOR 10 OR 12 YEARS YOU SEE THIS A LOT.

GUYS WHO GOT INTO COACHING THEY WERE QUARTERBACKS AND THE BACKUP QUARTERBACKS.

AND THEY ARE BLACK.

WILLIAMS SAID TO ME THE MORE BLACK UP QUARTERBACKS YOU HAVE THE MORE GOOD COACHING CANDIDATES THERE'S GOING TO BE IN THE LONG RUN AND THE MORE GOOD CANDIDATES YOU HAVE YOU WILL START TO SEE THAT CHANGE.

BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT WILL BE A LONGTIME COMING BUT I'M SAYING IT'S SLOW TO CHANGE ON THAT FRONT AND THE NFL HAS A PROBLEM THERE.

>> Jeff: I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S THE AUTHOR'S DECISION OR THE PUBLISHERS DECISION WHO IS ON THE COVER OF THIS BOOK AND WHY?

>> WELL, LET'S SAY BOTH.

THE PUBLISHER DOES HAVE A HAND IN IT THE AUTHOR HAS OPINIONS.

BUT I'M HAPPY WITH WHO IS ON THE COVER.

FIRST OFF AT THE TOP IS WARREN MOON WHO I INTERVIEWED MULTIPLE TIMES FOR THIS BOOK.

THAT IS NOT WHY HE IS ON THE COVER.

HE TO ME IS SORT OF THE CENTRAL FIGURE MANY RESPECTS IN THIS STORY BECAUSE WHEN HE WON THE ROSE BOWL AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON IN 1978.

AND WAS HE JUST SYMBOLIZES EVERYTHING.

WENT UNDRAFTED DESPITE BEING A PRIME PROSPECT BECAUSE OF THE USUAL REASONS IN 1978 THE NFL WEREN'T SURE THAT HE WAS SMART ENOUGH TO RUN AN OFFENSE, COULD HE WORK HARD ENOUGH COULD HE LEAD ALL THIS RACIST IDEOLOGY IN EXISTENCE FOR YEARS.

HE GOES TO CANADA.

HE PLAYS IN THE CANADIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

SIX YEARS WINS FIVE CHAMPIONSHIPS.

AFTER THAT, THEY FINALLY GIVE HIM A SHOT TO COME BACK AND PLAYS FOR THE OILERS HE IS AN ELITE QUARTERBACK FOR YEARS.

WHEN HE SIGNED WITH THE OILERS IN 1984 THERE WERE NO BLACK STARTING QUARTERBACKS IN THE NFL.

I SEE HIM AS BEING REALLY A KEY PIVOTAL FIGURE AND ALSO ON THE FRONT PATRICK MAHOMES, WHO I THINK REALLY IS SORT OF A DISTILLLATION OF EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE BEEN BUILDING TO IN THIS PART WITH THIS STORY.

BECAUSE FOR MY MONEY THE BEST QUARTERBACK IN FOOTBALL AND ALREADY TWO TIME SUPER BOWL WINNER AND IF IT KEEPS UP HEADED FOR THE HALL OF FAME AN AMAZING STORY IN HIS OWN RIGHT.

I SEE THOSE TWO AS THE RIGHT GUYS FOR THE COVER.

>> Jeff: JOHN EISENBERG IS THE AUTHOR OF ROCKET MEN, THE BLACK QUARTERBACKS WHO REVOLUTIONIZED PRO FOOTBALL.

JOHN, AS ALWAYS WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

>> WELL, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

I ENJOYED IT AS ALWAYS.

>> Jeff: THAT IS "DIRECT CONNECTION" FOR THIS WEEK.

WE'RE BACK FRIDAY WITH "STATE CIRCLE" THE LATEST ON MARYLAND POLITICS JOIN US FRIDAY EVENING AT 7:00 P.M. YOU CAN SEE RECENT EPISODES OF OUR PROGRAMS AT VIDEO.MPT.TV.

FOR ALL OF US AT MPT THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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